Samantha Herman, a successful screenwriter-producer with 10 Hallmark movies, discusses how she launched her screenwriting career, storytelling techniques, and navigating the writing process. She explores networking, the impact of AI, and offers advice to aspiring screenwriters.
Chapters
0:00:00 Introduction to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast
0:01:29 Introduction to guest Samantha Herman and her background
0:02:38 From Toronto to Hollywood: The Journey Begins
0:03:10 Journey into the Christmas movie screenwriting industry
0:04:26 Meeting a Hallmark actress and getting an opportunity
0:05:22 Tips for Writing Heartwarming Christmas Movie Scripts
0:06:11 Balancing audience expectations and staying fresh in Christmas movies
0:12:25 Three Ways to Approach Rewriting Projects
0:13:55 Timeline and Writing Speed for Scripts
0:17:07 Building Relationships: The Key to Success
0:18:20 Film Festivals: Toronto, LA, and Austin
0:20:03 Favorite Script: A Writer’s Personal Choice
0:20:15 Memorable Experience with Mingle Podcast
0:21:26 Maintaining Work-Life Balance and Hobbies
0:22:26 Overcoming shyness and embracing assertiveness in pursuing dreams
0:24:00 Balancing legal consulting with a writing career
Transcript
Host: Caryn McCann
[0:00] This is the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast, episode number five.
Introduction to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast
[0:14] Hello and welcome to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast. I’m your host, Caryn
McCann. The Christmas Movie Screenwriter is a podcast about writing, producing, and selling Christmas movies. I publish a transcript with every episode if you want to read something later.
Just go to the website at www.ChristmasMoviesSreenwriter.com.
A quick few words about what I’m working on. I was just at the AFM, the American Film Market, the last few days. One thing I learned was that I need to attend more seminars. I stood in line with two other filmmakers and we chatted for about half an hour while in line. It was great. There was no pressure to pitch and I felt we all learned something from each other. Many times I focus on meeting exhibitors and not networking with other filmmakers, so lesson learned.
On the script front, I had a fantastic reception for my projects, so writers, it’s worth knocking on doors even if you don’t have a scheduled meeting. Writers tend to be introverts, so it’s a bit of a challenge to cold-call producers, but it worked for me and I hope to have good news soon.
Our guest today is screenwriter/ producer Samantha Herman. She has 10 produced Hallmark movies under her belt.
Introduction to guest Samantha Herman
[1:30] Now just a note, this interview was recorded before the end of the writer’s strike.
Here is the interview.
[1:37] Today’s guest is Samantha Herman. Making people laugh was always Samantha’s primary pursuit. With that ultimate goal in mind, she also decided to academically foster her passion, studying English and film at the University of Toronto in her hometown. Traveling towards Hollywood, she paused in Chicago where she graduated cum laude from Loyola University’s Chicago Law School. Finally, she moved to LA in 2010 with her California bar license in hand.
Since then, Samantha has produced a number of short films, music videos, television pilots, and three features. As a screenwriter, Samantha has found success in the romantic comedy genre with 10 produced Hallmark Channel films under her belt and many more in development, for Hallmark and various streamers. Due to a bet, she also wrote a romance novel and self-published it on Amazon.
Well, Samantha, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Guest: Samantha Herman
Thank you for having me.
Host: Caryn McCann
Now, can you take a minute and tell us about yourself and your work?
From Toronto to Hollywood: The Screenwriting Journey Begins
Guest: Samantha Herman
[2:38] Sure. So, as you mentioned, I’m from Toronto, but I knew I wanted to come for the bright lights of Hollywood, so I made my way down here in 2010, initially as a lawyer. And then once I got my foothold in the screenwriting portion of my career, which I’m sure we’ll get to in further detail, that’s been more of the primary expenditure of my time. And now, of course, is. Probably all your listeners know we’re on strike, so it slows down for the moment.
Journey into the Christmas movie screenwriting industry
Host: Caryn McCann
[3:10] Can you write a spec script?
Guest: Samantha Herman
Yes, we can and I am. Okay, I say you might as well use this time.
Host: Caryn McCann
You know, a little bit of talked about your journey out to LA, but what was the journey breaking into the industry as a Christmas movie screenwriter?
Guest: Samantha Herman
So I watched these movies my whole life. I love them. I’m Jewish, so this was how I celebrated Christmas. So it was no accident that I fell into this and pursued it, but I wrote my first movie on spec. It became Mingle All The Way, but at the time when I had it in hand, I didn’t know what to do with it. I’d had a couple bites from producers that seemed to say, maybe it sounded like a good idea, but I really didn’t know what to do with that.
[3:56] And I was so naive that I thought that their kind interest meant that they wanted it, which was not necessarily the case. So anyway, I didn’t know what to do with it. I didn’t have representation at the time.
And so my path was a bit circuitous and I think speaks to how kind of the wild west nature of how things are here now. It’s not just the typical route that traditionally has been the path. But anyhow, long story short, I met Jen Lilley, my future leading lady at a party at Sundance.
Meeting a Hallmark actress and getting a screenwriting opportunity
[4:26] She had just done her first Hallmark movie, and I knew that because I’d seen the advert for it. She was there with a friend who knew the friend that I was there with. We were just chatting, small talk, at the same party with no agenda. I just brought up that I had written this movie just as something to talk about. I didn’t think, you know, business-wise, anything would come of it, but luckily for me, she took an interest.
[4:48] She read it, asked if she could send it to the producer with whom she had done her movie out of Vancouver. So that producer then submitted it to the network on all of our behalves, the producer to produce, Jen to star, and me as the writer with the caveat, and I think maybe this is interesting for your listeners that want to pursue this, that possibly it would be acquired and then appointed to someone else to rewrite it.
Was I okay with that? I was, I’m like, anything to get in, maybe I’ll get to do the next one, whatever this looks like, I’m grateful for the opportunity
Tips for Writing Heartwarming Christmas Movie Scripts
[5:22] And for whatever reason, they didn’t replace me with someone else, they let me do it. But essentially, maybe this is too granular, but it served basically as if it was a one page pitch.
[5:35] They saw promise in me and the premise, but we retooled it from the ground up under their purview and under their parameters. And I didn’t know how to put in commercial breaks at the time. So I learned all the formatting kind of live from the ground (up).
Host: Caryn McCann
That was Mingle All the Way?
[5:48]. That was Mingle All The Way. It was completely written when you met Jen.
Guest: Samantha Herman
It was completely written. A version of it was completely written. The version that you may have seen was very much redone.
Host: Caryn McCann
When you went to that party, did you think, oh, there’s a Christmas Hallmark actress – I should go talk to her?
Balancing audience expectations
Guest: Samantha Herman
[6:11] No, I thought, I’ve seen her on soap operas, and I know she’s got a Hallmark movie, and I want to talk to her as a fan And maybe have a friendly chat. I had no agenda.
Host: Caryn McCann
Oh, okay. Wow. That was that was fortuitous. Good. Good.
Guest: Samantha Herman
Yes I’ve told her many times that she has changed my life for the better. I’m very grateful.
Host: Caryn McCann
So are you partnering like you always want her in in your movies?
Guest: Samantha Herman
I would love to work with her again We’ve only done one more in addition to mingle all the way together And we’ve pitched a couple things and haven’t gone forward, but I would love to work with her again.
Host: Caryn McCann
Oh Excellent, excellent. So what specific elements do you think are essential to include in a successful Christmas movie screenplay?
Screenwriting Elements
Guest: Samantha Herman
As this may or may not surprise you, Christmas.
[6:56] Christmas has to be present in all the scenes, all the decor, and just a kind of an explosion of festivity. So that’s important. I’ve gotten those notes. I’m like, where’s the decoration? And try to think of, you know, interesting ways that the characters can celebrate that are maybe not just the typical ones. I end up going back to my well of, you know, the gingerbread contest, but try to mix it up a little bit. And then of course, you know, family, love, happy endings.
And I know we’re going to get into this more, but ideally something a little bit more unique as far as the location and the reason why the characters have to be in proximity and not just the small town girl goes home.
Host: Caryn McCann
Exactly. So, we all kind of know the Christmas formula. So how do you balance meeting the audience expectations?
Screenwriting and Audience expectations
Guest: Samantha Herman
Cause this is sort of like comfort food. They know what they want and the buyers know what they want. You want to stay fresh, but not predictable or cliché.
Yeah, it’s a big challenge. And I have fallen into the trap of, kind of fulfilling the tropes that I’ve seen and think are expected. And as I just said, you know, it used to be a small town girl or a small town boy has moved to the big city. They go back and, you know, reconnect with their high school boyfriend and abandon their careers and resettle back there.
[8:22] And then suddenly get engaged or whatever. So try not to do all of that. And fortunately, especially in the Hallmark space, they’ve been very interested and welcoming of more grounded and real world dynamics. So it’s not just the snow globe, idyllic version of our leading lady and our leading man.
Screenwriting Today – Hallmark embraces flawed characters
They still have to be likeable and root able. But I think there’s more allowance for more flawed characters, more quirky characters, more unique characters, and just the job titles.
There’s always the ones that, we’re not doing that this year, we have too many. So you just kind of stay on top of what has been done most recently and just keep them in a different circumstance. And I also try to draw on people that I know, my own experiences, and dramatize those real life things that are maybe a little more substantive.
Host: Caryn McCann
Script is finished, now what?
Right. Now, if you’re writing a script on spec and you’ve finished it, you’ve had people read it, it’s ready to go out, what’s the next step? How do you help move it into production?
Guest: Samantha Herman
[9:31] So that’s a good question. For the most part, the Christmas ones that I do are commissioned, and so I know who they belong to and that they’re hopefully going to go forward within the hands of the people that asked for it. But I do write on my own from time to time, and now I am during our strike period.
Screenwriting tips
I think, first of all, get other people to read it before you might think it’s ready. I have fallen into that myself, but it really needs some fresh eyes. Hopefully you can find people that are in the industry or appreciate the industry, so they know what a script should look like and get that feedback and go through a few revisions before it actually is fully baked.
And then at that point, I think attachments are really key right now. So a director or a producer or a talent that you can have belong to the project to then shepherd it forward and say, Hey, they want to do it.
I think that’s an asset, but you don’t want to do too much of that. There’s a fine line because you don’t want it to be too encumbered. So maybe the buyer won’t want that person. But I think when you’re first starting, I mean, that’s what I did with Jen and it was It’s instrumental.
[10:44] I think maybe you have other questions towards this, but networking is everything in this career. It’s all relationship-based.
Host: Caryn McCann
When you’re getting these producers or actors or directors, is that just with a letter of intent or it’s an actual contract?
After Screenwriting – Talent attachments?
Guest: Samantha Herman
[11:01] As far as their attachment, yeah, it can be casual, yeah, letter of intent.
Host: Caryn McCann
I would think that wouldn’t scare away a buyer because letter of intent, I mean, of course, the relationship would be hurt, I think, if a big actress said, yes, I want to do your movie. And the buyer’s like, no. And you have to go back to your friend and say, guess what?
Guest: Samantha Herman
You want this bit part? Yes, that’s absolutely right. Yeah. So a side question, just so our audience knows, they can look forward to someday being in your shoes.
Host: Caryn McCann
When you are commissioned to write a script, can you tell us the timeline? When do they want a treatment? How long do you get? How long does it take? Do you get to write the script? What’s the process?
Guest: Samantha Herman
Yeah. So just homework specifically, and I’ve done stuff for CBS and I’ll just speak to homework because that’s most of my experience. There are three avenues that I have found work with them. Number one is you pitch your own idea verbally or maybe a paragraph or a blurb and they like it and then you have a larger conversation. That’s one road.
One is the project is already green lit with a producer and they need someone to execute on it and you might be called in to basically audition to see if you’re the right person for the part and you would say, this is my take on what the blurb that you’ve provided is and you might be chosen.
Screenwriting is Rewriting
[12:25] And then the third way is to come on as a rewriter for something that’s already ongoing.
And same thing, you would say, here’s what I think might need to be reworked, here’s what I would do with it. So I’m calling it auditioning, but it’s really pitching on the project. Basically, once you get through that first wave of the gauntlet, for the most part, do want an outline.
And it can be bullets, paragraphs, that doesn’t seem to be preferential in either way, but they want to see what are the highlight, milestone moments, what are the act breaks, as far as the cliffhangers going out of the, into commercial, what are the character arcs, how do the leads impact each other to result in that arc concluding in a happy way.
And there’s a lot of backstory that they like to hear. So that all goes into the outline and you might go through that a couple of times before you’re released into the wild.
[13:25] And that’s what I’m calling my bunker to write the first draft. And timeline, there can be a lot of stop and wait and then go. Usually the outline a couple weeks and then you might hear right away, adjust this or go forward. And it depends on when they feel like they need to film it. So I’ve had some where it’s like, just go, we need it ASAP. And then some I’ve waited months in between phases. So it really is every which way.
Timeline and Screenwriting for Speed
Host: Caryn McCann
[13:55] And then, if they say, okay, we like the treatment, we like the outline, write the script, how much How much time do you normally get to write from page 1 to 90 or whatever?
Guest: Samantha Herman
105 (pages) is their sweet spot, if your listeners really want to hear, but it’s good to know. Yeah.
[14:16] I’m on the faster side. I think I’m known for that. And I, if I know that, you know, this is an urgent matter, two weeks, and, you know, if I have a more leisurely window up to six.
Host: Caryn McCann
Two weeks, you do write fast. That is fast.
Guest: Samantha Herman
It’s funny, because, you know, when I look at some of these on Netflix or whatever, when I look at the, especially, just it could be Homer, it could be anybody, these movies, it’s like 84 minutes, 85 minutes.
Screenwriting and the Ideal Page Count
Host: Caryn McCann
But yours, you’re saying start with 105 pages.
Guest: Samantha Herman
Yeah, and that was one of the things I didn’t know going into it. So the first draft of my Mingle All The Way script was exactly that. I think it was maybe 88, something like that. Cause I thought, you know, one page, one minute, but they like it longer, they like film more than they use. And so that is lost in the edit and you know, then you have to figure out what the connective tissue is to make sure that it all makes sense. But they do like to have more footage than is used. More cushion.
Host: Caryn McCann
Okay, cushion, I get it. Okay, so how would you suggest screenwriters expand their network of producers? And would you suggest conferences, if so, like Sundance, you know, which ones are competitions or utilizing online platforms?
Screenwriting and Competitions
Guest: Samantha Herman
[15:30] I’ve never really taken the competition route myself. There are some big name ones like Nickel and Blacklist and a couple Academy ones that really get you noticed. And then the other ones, it’s kind of a crapshoot of, is it just a money grab for the entry fee or do people really source from it.
So I would suggest that if your audience listeners see one, just to vet it a little bit, see if anything has actually come out of it. Maybe try and ask around if someone has participated in it and see what their experience is. But there’s nothing wrong with doing the competition route. I think there’s value in getting your name out there, getting reads.
[16:14] Conferences, I would equate that with film festivals. And yeah, for sure. It’s an amazing outlet to see films, meet people, there’s parties, people are interested in talking about film. So it’s and it’s a conversational way to do it. It doesn’t feel as formal. So I think those are great places to go and meet people. And online wise, I think IMDb Pro is something that everyone who’s trying to do this should have.
It’s the paid version of IMDb and you can find contact information for just about anybody. And when I do my mentor group, I say, don’t ask, don’t get. That is my mantra in a nice, polite, succinct way. And I’ve had people reach out to me cold and ask for a conversation and I’ll talk to anybody.
Building Relationships: The Key to Success
[17:07] If I’m able to. And I have done that as the requester as well. And I’ve had those conversations. So I think if you go into that with no firm agenda, but just wanting to meet someone,
wanting to hear their experience, and come in with something specific. I’ve gotten the ones that are clearly Bcc’d to 100 people. My recommendation is give the two minutes of extra effort to put in something where it looks like you know who you’re sending it to. Besides, you never know what’s going to come from that. And you never know like what assistant today is the executive of tomorrow.
So these relationships all matter and they all add up, even if that opportunity isn’t the following week. You just never know. It’s a long game in this biz. and talent is good, hard work is good, but relationships are 90%.
Host: Caryn McCann
Oh, that’s great. So you mentioned film markets, film festivals, besides Sundance, are there others that you recommend?
Film Festivals: Toronto, LA, and Austin
Guest: Samantha Herman
[18:20] I mean, I’m biased because I’m from Toronto, but I always go for this year, back for TIFF. There’s, you know, LA Film Festival. I don’t know, you know, the Austin Film Festival is a good one. I’ve never been to it, but I would love to. South by.
Host: Caryn McCann
AFM?
Guest: Samantha Herman
AFM, yeah. Yeah, good, good. Now, during, you know, we’re in the middle of a strike still, and one of the big arguments is AI.
Host: Caryn McCann
Yes. My question about AI is, do you think AI will change the way Christmas movies are written or made? And if so, how?
Guest: Samantha Herman
I think it’s possible, and I’m frightened by that. And not just the crispness of it all, but the storytelling as a whole. I mean, it’s one of the oldest things that we have done as human beings.
And to have a robot, I mean, I don’t know the terminology. I’m not techie, take over for that, I think, is just a shame and a blight on what era we’re in right now. I’m hoping it’s not going to take over to the extent that Skynet becomes real, but I think it’s possible that algorithmically there might be pitches.
[19:35] I think it’s possible that a first draft could be written, but it would have no soul, it would have no life experience, it would have no nuance, and they can’t reflect an authentic human person or experience. And so I’m hoping that it won’t, but I fear that it will, Especially at the, you know, like I was mentioning the blurbs. Right, right. At that phase, I think it could have an impact, but I hope not.
Favorite Script: A Writer’s Personal Choice
[20:03] Yeah, you and me both. So what, now you’ve got a ton of work.
Host: Caryn McCann
So what is your favorite script? I know it’s hard to pick one. What’s your favorite script that you’ve written and why?
Guest: Samantha Herman
[20:15] I think I’d have to pick between two. Mingle, because it was the first one I learned so much and I had such passion for it. And it was a nerve wracking experience. I was, I really didn’t want to mess it up. I knew that if I did a good job or a good enough job, they would have me back.
[20:33] It was an amazing learning experience and it was just the most fun because I was jumping into this new pool. And then to have it with Jen and I got to go and I think it turned out well. That one is precious to me.
Then I have a new one on the go called Christmas, Christmas, Christmas. And that one was a bit of fun for me because it’s multi-versal, like sliding doors a little bit. So I got to stretch the genre. And so that one is with producers and hopefully we’ll find a home, maybe has found a home during this time and hope that we’ll see the light of day in the next year or so.
Host: Caryn McCann
That’s a great idea.
Guest: Samantha Herman
Thank you.
Host: Caryn McCann
It’s very, very unique. There you go. You’ve already sold me. And just two words, three words, Christmas sliding doors. Yes. That could be your title.
Maintaining Work-Life Balance and Hobbies
Guest: Samantha Herman
[21:26] Christmas, Christmas, Christmas.
Host: Caryn McCann
Okay. Okay, now getting a movie made, as you just mentioned, can be very stressful. So what do you do to maintain a work -life balance? And do you have any hobbies?
Guest: Samantha Herman
I do, but my passion is TV and film and books. And so I have like a limited scope of what I like. So I’m at the movie theater multiple times a week. I watch every show.
[21:53] I think that’s important too. I’ve met so many people who are trying to do this because they perceive it as glamorous, but don’t actually digest the content that is out there. I’m like, no, but you should like this because, right, you should do it because you like it. And I have a genuine passion for it. And then, you know, outside of that, I knit and I do puzzles. Those are my hometown or at -home hobbies. And I play league trivia. That’s my athleticism, not.
Overcoming shyness and embracing assertiveness in pursuing dreams
[22:26] You’d be good at trivia night. What advice would you give to your younger self?
Guest: Samantha Herman
My younger self knew that she wanted to do this, but was very shy and would not admit it and would never show anyone her work. This business is not made for the timid. And I’ve, you know, I’ve kind of graduated into a more boisterous and more overt and, assertive version of that, but if I had done it sooner, maybe it would have gotten the ball rolling sooner.
So that’s what I would say. And also just read more scripts, because I watch everything, but it’s different on the page. So I would have started that sooner as well.
Host: Caryn McCann
[23:10] I kind of have an unusual question that I just kind of popped into my mind. Your law background, has that given you any kind of edge, or do you feel like I’m more prepared when I talk to producers, has that helped you?
Guest: Samantha Herman
It did help, especially at the beginning when I didn’t have reps. I was doing my own agreement.
So it just helped me understand the language and what I was promising and make sure that those obligations were fulfilled on both ends. So that definitely helps. And we flex that. They may not take advantage as much without that. So that has helped. I did one movie that had a legal component to it. And of course, it was done in the most preposterous way. I hope that helps.
Host: Caryn McCann
Are you working as a lawyer representing anyone?
[24:00] Or is it just, I have this great background in education?
Balancing legal consulting with writing career
Guest: Samantha Herman
I still do a little bit of business affairs consulting mostly for indie filmmakers and writers. So yeah, I’m still active in that less so as I was at the beginning before the writing took off, but I still have some repeat customers, yeah, and clients.
Host: Caryn McCann
That’s good. Well, you’d be great in a meeting with the producer. You’d be like, talk to her. She’s the lawyer.
Guest: Samantha Herman
[24:28] Thank you.
Host: Caryn McCann
So to wrap up, would you like to share any social media details or website links so our audience knows how to keep track of your work?
Guest: Samantha Herman
Sure. So I’m on the gram. That’s where I can be most widely found in my handle.
I clearly am an old millennial, I don’t even know what I’m talking about, is Shermy, S
underscore Hermy, H -E -R -M -Y. A lot of strike content right now.
Host: Caryn McCann
Oh, great. Great. And any other like X or X or Twitter or anything like that?
Guest: Samantha Herman
I have Twitter and I think it’s the same name, but I am a more of a lurker on Twitter. I don’t look very often. But I’m there.
Host: Caryn McCann
Okay, great. Well, Samantha, this has been great. This has been very educational. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
Guest: Samantha Herman
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, You’re welcome, bye -bye.
Host: Caryn McCann
[25:24] And now for my key points, today I have four.
Meeting People
Samantha mentioned how she met an actress at a Sundance Film Festival party. She knew the actress had done her first Hallmark movie and went over to chat about it. Samantha happened to mention she had just written her first Christmas script. Long story short, the actress read it, liked it, and gave it to her producer, and the film was made. Samantha didn’t have an agenda or tried to pitch her project to the actress. She was just chatting.
She was genuine and didn’t steamroll folks with a pitch, which is a real turn -off. Be genuine and be interested in other people. Hollywood is based on relationships and good things come from that.
Grounded Characters
According to Samantha, Hallmark is more open these days to more flawed and quirky characters and having an interesting job is a plus, not the same old cliched ad exec or baker.
Commissioned Scripts
There are three ways. One is you pitch your own idea. Two is you audition for a project that’s already greenlit and that means you give your take on the story. And number three, you’re hired to rewrite a completed script.
[26:38]
Outlines
If you get past any of these steps and are commissioned to do a script, you’ll be asked to provide an outline. This can be in bullet form or in paragraph form. Here’s the gist of what needs to be covered.
- Highlights or milestone moments.
- Act breaks.
- Character arcs. How do the leads impact each other to result in the arc concluding in a happy way?
Well, that’s the show. Thank you for listening. To show your support, please give us a five star rating on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and sign up to be notified of the launch of membership website at www.ChristmasMovieScreenwriter .com. Thanks for listening. And I’ll see you on the next Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast. Bye.
The Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast – Episode 5
Samantha Herman – Screenwriter / Producer
Show Notes
HOST: Caryn McCann
Website: https://christmasmoviescreenwriter.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChristmasMovieScreenwriter
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/MerryScriptmas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-mccann-5718058/
GUEST: Samantha Herman
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/s_hermy/
IMDB: https://imdb.to/3QV88CR