Chapters
0:00:01 Introducing the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast
0:02:16 Key elements and qualities in a Christmas screenplay
0:05:23 Production logistics and script readiness for shooting
0:08:19 Keeping the cast size manageable and avoiding scheduling challenges
0:09:40 The Importance of the Meet-Cute Moment
0:11:19 Ideal Page Count and Running Time for Scripts
0:15:07 AI Tools as Writing Efficiency and Resource
0:17:24 Writing with Budgets in Mind for Christmas TV Movies
0:20:49 Importance of Working with Recognizable Talent
0:23:37 Utilizing Social Media and Writing Novels for Networking
0:25:31 Avoiding Trends and Focusing on Evergreen Scripts
0:27:37 Younger Self: Embrace Opportunities in Independent Christmas Movies
0:30:09 The Shift in TV Movies and Market Trends
0:32:17 Opportunities for Non-Union and New Writers in the Genre
0:34:29 The Importance of Wholesome Christmas Films
0:37:12 Key Takeaways: Production Logistics, Pitch Meetings, and Opportunities
Summary
In the debut episode of the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast, Caryn McCann interviews Scott Kirkpatrick, the executive vice president of co-productions and distribution at Nicely Entertainment. Scott shares his insights on how writers can make their scripts stand out from the competition and emphasizes the importance of being entrepreneurial in the industry.
During the conversation, Scott highlights the key elements he looks for in a Christmas screenplay, such as female-driven stories with critical themes and production logistics. He stresses the need for scripts that can be shot within a tight timeframe of 12 to 15 days, with characters who have significant roles and scenes that don’t involve excessive expenses or logistical challenges.
Scott encourages writers to offer a fresh take on the formulaic nature of Christmas movies while still adhering to certain conventions. He discusses the importance of establishing a good creative connection between writers and producers.
He also provides tips on choosing filming locations and minimizing the need for excessive movement of the production team. They suggest shooting as much as possible in one location or using clever techniques to create multiple scenes in a single location. For casting, they recommend keeping the number of characters to around 12 or less, with a focus on the main love interest and a few supporting roles.
Scott emphasizes the importance of personal branding for writers, utilizing the internet to showcase their strengths and multiple scripts in the same genre. They discuss the future of the industry, mentioning AI tools like ChatGPT as valuable resources for writers.
Additionally, Scott touches on issues related to budgets, actor and director letters of interest, and finding scripts through recommendations and blind pitches. He mentions various opportunities for networking, such as meetups, conventions, and industry events.
Moreover, he discusses market trends, advising screenwriters to focus on clever, creative, and evergreen scripts rather than chasing current trends. He mentions industry events like the American Film Market and MipCom as opportunities for writers to see the media business in action.
Furthermore, Scott shares observations about the TV movie industry, noting that TV movies are relatively inexpensive and allow for market testing of new ideas and genres. Hence, he mentions the resurgence of Christmas movies and the abundance of opportunities for aspiring writers in this genre.
Finally, Scott concludes by mentioning their preference for wholesome, Christmas-themed films that can be tailored to different broadcasters and platforms.
Transcript
Introducing the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast
Host: Caryn[0:01] This is the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast, episode number one.
Introducing the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast[0:14] Hello and welcome to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast. I’m your host, Caryn McCann. This is our debut episode and I’m very excited to be launching this podcast. The Christmas Movie Screenwriter is a podcast and blog about writing, producing, and selling Christmas movies. I’m also launching a membership website to connect writers and producers of heartwarming Christmas movies worldwide.
You can sign up at www.christmasmoviesscreenwriter.com. Our first guest is Scott Kirkpatrick of Nicely Entertainment. He discusses how Christmas movie screenwriters can stand out from the competition, how writers need to be entrepreneurs, different outlets for your scripts, and much more. Here is the main segment.
[1:02] Today’s guest is Scott Kirkpatrick. Scott Kirkpatrick is the executive vice president of co-productions and distribution for Nicely Entertainment, a Los Angeles-based production and distribution company that produces original TV movies and scripted TV series, where he brokers major content deals and has executive produced a variety of TV movies, including Christmas at the Amish Bakery, Sappy Holiday, and The Snowball Effect.
Previously, Kirkpatrick served as the Senior Vice President of North American Sales and Business Development for the London-based Nent Studios UK, where he oversaw international television distribution deals on a variety of programs.
Prior to this, Kirkpatrick served as an Executive Director of Distribution for MarVista Entertainment, a Los Angeles-based production and distribution company that produces original TV movies and has managed international TV deals on major franchises.
He is the author of the books: (i) Writing for the Green Light: How to Make Your Script the One Hollywood Notices, (ii) Introduction to Media Distribution: Film, Television and New Media, and (iii) Mastering the Pitch: How to Effectively Pitch Your Ideas to Hollywood.
Kirkpatrick lives in Los Angeles with his wife and two children.
Key elements and qualities in a Christmas script
[2:16] So, Scott, thank you for coming on the show today.
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Host: Caryn
Now, I told the audience a little bit about you, but why don’t you take a minute and tell us about yourself and your business?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[2:27] Yeah, the bio you read is quite the overly formalized version of my world.
It’s, yeah, I basically, I currently I’m executive producing a lot of TV movies. I’ve always been on the side, sort of the business side of the industry didn’t start that way.
I started more on the production end and very much wanted to be on that creative end. And then I personally just found a lot of creativity and excitement, putting these deals together and making these projects sort of come to life. In a nutshell, I put the right people in the room and connect money to creativity and get things moving.
Host: Caryn
Well, that’s it. That’s a talent. That is a talent. Now let’s start this podcast is called The Christmas Movie Screenwriter. So let’s start with that. What are some key elements or qualities that you look for in a Christmas screenplay that would motivate you to produce it?
Key Elements Needed In Your Screenplay
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[3:20] Well, I think coming from the business side, my answers are a little bit different, maybe than where a lot of writers may normally get their information, which is much more focused on story plot and all that my main views look stories critical like don’t take that wrong. It’s it’s female-driven specifically with Christmas. That’s vital.
[3:49] Having those themes and story arcs is super important, and I’m happy to dive into those. But really, another series of things that I look for, I would call them production logistics, you know, reading a script, being able to see it that this is sort of more or less ready to shoot is important.
Knowing that you could, you know, not have it be too expensive to produce. You know, you need, there’s always that sort of question mark about clichés with these movies, you know, they do follow a bit of a formula in a way. But at the end of the day, I like to think of this kind of like comfort food, and at the end, you know, you do need it to sort of fit into the box that’s going to be the cozy comfort food on a grocery store shelf. So you do need certain conventions, but you know, having a creative take on it or a new look at that is always really exciting.
A Fresh Take
So I would say it’s formulaic, but a fresh take on the same old thing is always fun. And then something that is like more or less ready to shoot, like it can be shot in 12 to 15 days, for instance, that it’s not going to cost an extreme amount of money and that there aren’t things like scenes that take place in moving cars and such that just really slow things down. Also, our relationship with the writer is important. So even if it’s a new writer, making sure you’re kind of on the same page creatively, and that’s usually just done by a phone call after we come across a project that we are interested in.
Host: Caryn[5:15] When you say 12 to 15 days, and you mentioned production logistics, ready to shoot, can you be a little more specific?
Production logistics and script readiness for shooting
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[5:23] Yeah, certainly. So ready to shoot would sort of mean that a writer has thought through, you know, what.
[5:32] All of the attributes of their scripts, so that there aren’t characters that are just popping up to do dialogue for like one, scene. You know that if a character is introduced, they do play an important part in the overall project, that they would actually need to be on set for more than, you know, just one quick scene because if you’re going to pay the expense of having them come in, you want to make sure that they’re going to be a critical role. And they might, you know if they’re going to be on set for a day, they should be there for the full day and working the full day, so to speak.
Location, Location, Location
You know, you want to make sure that, as I was sort of mentioning some of your scenes just aren’t in very expensive locations, or that you don’t have very expensive, grandiose moments, like a Christmas parade that requires, you know, tons of extras and lots of like, basic logistics like that. And yeah, these things shoot fast. They’re 12 days, 14 days, sometimes 18-day shoots, the most maybe on a quote, bigger budget one would be like 24, let’s say, but that’s not a lot of time.
And anybody who’s been on set, you know, a lot of scenes are getting photographed each day. So you sort of have to make sure that you’re using recurring locations and that you can sort of squeeze that in in a way that is not going to feel forced or rushed or anything like that.
Host: Caryn
Is there a template that you prefer, like these many speaking roles, and these many locations?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[6:56] You know, there’s not really, it’s a great question. There’s not a clear formula. And the reason is this, when you’re a lot of these are shot on location. And if you happen to be at a location where let’s say, let’s say you can get a restaurant or something along those lines, maybe part of the restaurant could be cheated to get a different type of location. So you could knock out multiple scenes.
So it’s hard to sort of, I would think of it more is like production moves, you want to make sure that you’re not going to require your production team to be moving all that often because that’s at least three hours of just dead time during a production day when they’re just getting from one place to another. As long as those can be cut down as much as possible. Or if you’re on set, you know that you can get as many shots in one location, that’s best.
Actors
But I would say, that’s your love interest, usually like two main roles. And then a handful of supporting roles that are there to support the objectives of those two main characters, and your antagonist and all that, but like really, you know, keep it like 12 and under in terms of total and ideally even less if you can, and avoid kids.
[8:13] At least young kids, or write them in in a very clever way, because they’re tough to schedule.
Keeping the cast size manageable and avoiding scheduling challenges
Host: Caryn[8:19] Is that 12 and under (speaking roles) include actors that only have five lines or less?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Yeah, I mean, in those kinds of situations, that’s workable because you can get them I mean, again, if they’re going to be there for the day, they can work fewer hours. They do have to take breaks for school and things like that, depending on how many days they need to be on set. So if you write them, I would say, like sporadically, sprinkling them in peppering them in, so to speak, in critical moments, and you make sure that when they’re in a scene, they’re truly in the scene. You know that they’re not just there for a line of dialogue. That’s, that’s, and it has to support, obviously, the main love story that’s driving the film.
Host: Caryn[9:01] Now, you sort of alluded to this earlier about the formula. Some critics say Christmas movies are formulaic. And, and I think we all kind of agree on that. How can writers make their scripts stand out, even though they have to kind of not paint within the lines, but you know what I mean?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Absolutely. Look, they are formulaic. And it’s, it’s, as I mentioned, it’s a comfort food. And it is supposed to be for an audience, they do want it to kind of fit a certain style, or story structure.
The Importance of the Meet-Cute Moment in a Christmas Script
[9:40] Having something fresh in there, like a fresh take on it, is always a little bit more interesting.
[9:53] You know, the meet, I would say put your focus on the meet-cute moment because generally, the vast majority of these films are female-led ropes. So whenever that meet cute moment pops up, that’s really your chance to do something original. I think that the fun moments as to how they kind of play that character dance in terms of the moments they find each other, the moments they realize they have chemistry together, what’s keeping them apart, you can do a lot of different things within the genre and still hit all the, you know, spot on story beats and all that, and still have enough difference that makes it a totally unique film. But I mean, and today, like, yes, it has to fit in.
But I mean, I’ve mentioned this in other conversations about the topic. It’s like, architects have to deal with gravity and building codes, like no, no industry is separate from having to fit and follow certain rules and color within the lines, as you say. So it’s how can you color in the lines? How can you satisfy all those broadcast requirements and you know, parameters that are set in place by VOD platforms and audience expectations, and still make something fun and unique? And the truth is, you can do quite a bit. And I think sometimes having rigid rules makes creativity really pop out when it’s there when it’s given the chance.
Host: Caryn
Is there a maximum number of pages, or it’s like anything over 85 pages, that’s too long?
Ideal Page Count and Running Time for Scripts
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[11:19] Well, I think the running time is different than the page. I mean, I know, I know page count is like, yeah, yeah, you’re right, like a minute a page, so to speak, I would say it should never be over 100 pages. I think I think 94-98 is a good sweet spot. Because if you have 94 pages, even if you have to trim the scene or shorten it a little bit, you’re guaranteed to sort of hit the network minimums or the VOD minimums, VOD, video on demand minimums of, you know, 86 to I would say like 85 to 88 minutes, including credits is sort of the ideal.
And if you have 94ish pages, that’s long enough to sort of assure everyone that, hey, we’ll have enough coverage here to hit the minutes. And if there’s something that’s just dragging, we can trim it and still be within the network.
Host: Caryn
Okay. Now, how do you find scripts? Do you tend to hire WGA writers or non-union writers?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[12:18] We’ve worked with both. WGA writers are much more expensive. So, you know, it’s you have to, you can only really acquire those scripts or work with WGA talent on more of the larger scale Christmas movies.
[12:36] So those would be like your premium network and video-on-demand platforms. Most of these projects are non-union, and most are from non-union writers. And how they get to us a lot of its recommendations.
A lot of it is, we’ve seen blind pitches and blind submissions. I’ve been to conferences and markets and have had people approach me. I think what separates a writer who gains traction from a writer who doesn’t make the impact they need to stand out personal branding, I think writers should, you know, utilize the internet and take advantage and create a little page for themselves. And they can talk about their strengths.
I think writers who come in the door with one script, if that script doesn’t nail it, then they usually don’t get a callback. But if they can come in with, like three scripts that are in the same genre, and like five to 10 ready-to-go log lines and ideas, and just kind of showcase there’s somebody who can just pitch, pitch, pitch, right, right, right, and hit what’s needed quickly.
That’s always going to be somebody who gets some attention. So if you’re writing a genre that’s known, that’s, I call them like goldmine genres are very popular genres. Christmas is one of those. And if you can, if you have several ideas ready to go, plus a script or two, that’s the kind of writer that pops out, and where they come from, they come from all over the place.
Host: Caryn[14:06] Well, it’s good to know. I’m glad we can share that with the writers out there. You should have at least well, hopefully, three Christmas scripts finished and then five to 10 log lines. So that’s very, very helpful.
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Yeah. And look, it’s a lot I know, but it’s like, yeah, I think, write a script, just you know, and then just work on the next one. You should I mean, as a writer, you should always be writing and you should always be creating new product. And I think that over time, yeah, that that should be your target is to have two to three scripts, five to 10 ideas, all ready to go and preset.
Host: Caryn
That’s great advice. Now, how do you see the film and television industry evolving in the coming years, especially with the popularity of chat, GPT, or other AI tools? Do you think this will diminish or increase opportunities for writers as well as producers?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
I think it’s an increase. I know it’s real…Look, I’ll admit some of it is a little bit alarming when you see how. Intuitive we’ll say some of the AI can be.
AI Tools as Writing Efficiency and Resource
[15:07] But I don’t see it as a threat. At the end of the day, I see these things as tools, you know, Google Maps is not a threat to anybody, you know, it’s you don’t have to use it if even if it’s telling you to go on one street versus another, and that’s honestly how I view it. I would be I’ve been asked before if we would acquire a school if it was predominantly written with AI, the answer is like, yeah, because good luck getting it to spit out something that makes coherent sense. At the end of the day, you need humans to craft these things. You need humans to tell these stories.
And I think that these tools can allow writers to maybe move more efficiently. And I think they’re valuable resources in terms of, as we were talking about earlier, weeding out the cliched ideas, right, or using it almost like a thesaurus, like where else can a scene take place, and you know, they can spit out good solutions to those sorts of problems. But I see it as an opportunity. And where I see the industry going is a continual, how do I say this?
[16:20] I to reel it back a bit, I mean, going way back to like, the 1950s. You know, when TV first popped up, advertising was the thing that funded it and made it work. And I only see that pattern continuing. You know, Netflix swore up and down all through the 2000 teens, that it would never integrate advertising into its model. And here they are doing it right now and quite successfully. Every, you know, fast channels are the craze right now, I think that this natural blending of ads into media has always been there. And I think that continuation is going to be the future. But I think what we’re going to start to see is very smart, integrated advertising to the point where it’s not jarring, it’s not.
[17:05] Overt, it feels very subtle. And it’s only really appealing to you if you’re the right target for it. That’s sort of where I think I think that intersection is where we’re headed. And it’s where I’m personally putting my focus.
Host: Caryn
Oh, okay, great. Now, you sort of mentioned budgets earlier.
Writing with Budgets in Mind for Christmas TV Movies
[17:24] Should writers be concerned with budgets when they’re writing their stories?
And what is your ideal budget for a Christmas TV movie?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
So my answer is yes, they should think about it. I know that every screenwriting book says to do the opposite, but it goes back to production logistics.
I mean, it’s like, you know, the theory, the idea is that you can write this amazing script. Because it’s an amazing script, it will just be it’ll just float to the surface. It will be made because it needs to be made. And that’s not reality. The reality is, that production companies distributors and channels, and VOD platforms need content, they have limited budgets. And so it either fits that budget or it doesn’t. And so writing for logistics with a budget in mind is something that does separate one writer from another and it does separate one script from another. The ideal budget? These are underwhelming.
[18:21] These are under $1 million. These are, I would say even, you know, $700,000 below. And, you know, that’s like the gross budget all in. Now, yes, there can be some that scale above that. But I think the core film should be able to get captured on camera for under a million dollars. So that limits you too.
[18:48] You know, a handful of locations, cute, charming towns, a couple of interiors, mostly interiors, the outside scenes, a lot of these movies get shot in the summertime, and they need snow. So that means you have to fake the snow. And that’s challenging. So you have to sort of think it through like that.
So I would say write it, write it cheap, dialogue-heavy, make the moments and interactions, focus on the cute, the meet-cute, the character builds, the character reveals, and, you know, avoid the big grandiose locations, and too many actors, and you can usually hit that number pretty efficiently.
Host: Caryn
Okay. Now, how valuable is having a letter of interest in LOI from an experienced Christmas movie director or actor? If you got a script with that, would you put that at the top of your scripts to read pile scripts-to-read-next pile?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Yes, but depending on who the letters of intent are from, you know, if it’s somebody who knows the space, like, okay, let’s talk director for a second, I would say between the two, just to be candid, an actor LOI is more important than director LOI in this space. If we were talking about horror films or some other genre, I might say the opposite.
[20:04] But for Christmas movies, it’s talent-driven, I would say more so. So if it’s from a director, that’s certainly valuable to the package. But it would I would I would look them up and I’d want to see a director who has experience directing in this space, or maybe it’s a person who’s never directed before. But, they have experience, let’s say, being a DP on films like this, or being you know, some capacity where they know the formula.
They know the budgets, know the workflows, and they have experience. Because the director at the end of the day is a project manager. So that’s sort of how I would see that. So on the letter of intent for talent, I do think that has a little bit more importance for Christmas movies.
Importance of Working with Recognizable Talent
[20:49] The answer is yes, it’s important. And I would have to be like a good name. And I don’t want to name-drop on this podcast. But somebody who’s like, truly know somebody who you know, their name, you know, their face. When you see them on a poster, you know (them). They don’t have to be “A” list talent. But they have to be somebody who makes you say, Oh, wow, okay. I didn’t know they were doing Christmas movies. Or I know them well.
I know them because of Christmas movies, but somebody in that space who has a real track record in the industry and has real the ability to get clicks or views from people who know nothing about our industry. Because they’re known enough to be household names, or known enough to be Oh, yeah, it’s that person from that show that they would take a moment to look at. That’s the value of that.
Host: Caryn
Okay. Now, how would you suggest screenwriters expand their network of producers? Would you say networking, and can you give examples, competitions, or utilizing online platforms?
Branding
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Yeah, so I think it, I do go back to branding. I do think that a writer needs to look at themselves as, you know, they’re entrepreneurs. They are, they have to be, you know.
[22:09] Know, and showcase themselves as being truly writers who are ready to write and career writers. And so what I mean by that is having a website with the kinds of projects you’ve done, if you haven’t done any showcase some samples, you, know, describe the kinds of projects you’re focused on. That way, it’s a very clear understanding of who this person is and what they’re doing. I would say something really vital is, yes, networking, but also networking with people who aren’t just writers.
Networking
I would say networking with people who are, working in totally different fields. Because if you only talk to writers, you tend to only get kind of like if you’re only reading the screenplay books, you know, they talk about like how the industry sometimes should work and not necessarily how it does. And that seems to be that little tiny difference is sort of the disconnect between writing a lot and not gaining much traction versus writing a lot and all of a sudden having people respond to you.
And then I would say it is worth it’s worth doing the competitions because you know, that gives you some laurels and something to kind of boast about that’s something you can put on your website, for instance, I would say utilize social media, you know, you can create a handle for yourself. That is your professional social media and keep it professional. It’s an it’s sort of a calling card for yourself and post about the genre you’re taking an interest in or the genres you’re taking an interest in. And then another way I think that writers can sort of.
Utilizing Social Media and Writing Novels for Networking
[23:37] Get into this is, and Christmas is great for this is writing novels. It’s a great way to maybe dive into the stories you want to do anyway. Dive a little deeper, and work them out, you’re not restricted by budget and all that with a novel. And, even if you’re a self-published author, having a couple of books under your belt, it does give you like a big leg up in terms of Okay, this person’s a real writer, you know. And then yeah, networks and conventions, those do go places, but I wouldn’t go to film festivals, per se, I would focus on a market for film and TV.
Film Markets
[24:15] So that would be, you know, whether it’s American Film Market, some of them are overseas, which are a little bit more challenging to reach. But, you know, MIPCOM in France, European Film Market, any of those where distributors are going to be first off their eye-opening in terms of seeing how the business of the media works, and how films and TV shows are bought and sold.
That’s, but it can also be a way to have direct meetings. It’s expensive, though. So I mean, you know, definitely think that through first and don’t just show up, you got to go prepared, you got to have those scripts written, you got to have the ideas written, you have to have your meeting set up in advance.
Because if you just go open to sort of score some meetings, you’re just going to wander booth to booth and not be able to meet with anybody. And it’s like, why’d you spend the money? So that would sort of be my view. Also, there are industry events and things of that nature that are designed for meetups. Those are certainly a good way to do things too. Right.
Host: Caryn
Can you share any insights into the market trends or demands in the film industry that screenwriters should consider when developing these Christmas scripts?
Avoiding Trends and Focusing on Evergreen Scripts
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[25:31] I take a view on this that like, trends are always changing. And what is popular today can change drastically in the next few months. So I would say, you know, don’t.
[25:48] By the time you see a trend, like on TV, like whatever happened in the Christmas movies of last year, like that’s, that’s over and done with. And so what is happening today for this Christmas season, because, you know, it’s July, we’re recording this, and, you know, we’re, we’re gearing up full force for Christmas 23 into 2024.
[26:11] There are some trends. But at the end of the day, it’s like, by the time a screenwriter was to put those into the script, there’s a high probability those may not be popular anymore. And if that’s the case, they might have just kind of shot their opportunity. You know what I mean? So I would say, I avoid trends altogether.
Focus on script conventions
And I just try to focus on a script, that meets the conventions that focus on clever, creative meet-cutes. This makes good, totally evergreen can work anytime, any year, any type of cast, sort of sort of productions. The scripts, you’re writing the spec scripts and truth, probably may or may not be the ones that get you the work. You might get hired to do another script, but they’re your showcase. Then a producer or distributor or somebody else may say, Hey, can you write a film that has these things in it? They’re telling you the trend they need because they need it for a deal to close.
So long-winded way of me saying I try to avoid trends, because anything I say now in a week or a month, could be the wrong thing. So exactly that.
Host: Caryn
Yeah, exactly right. Now, if you could advise your younger self about producing Christmas movies, what would it be?
Younger Self: Embrace Opportunities in Independent Christmas Movies
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[27:37] As a first time, I would say this. They’re a lot more. There’s a lot more creativity in them than I ever would have expected before I got into this space.[28:01] When I was younger, and I was getting into this industry, I wanted to do these like big epic sweeping types of movies and such. And then once I sort of realized where the real industry was, and what the real projects that moved through the industry, I would go back to myself and just say this, like, if you want to break into the film and TV business.
There are those big studio projects, yes. But there’s, they’re very, very, very hard to reach. And the barriers of entry, all the walls of the barrier are so hard to break through.
Union vs. Non-Union
However, the majority of media that is getting produced, like the vast majority of it is independent. A lot of it non-union, or, or minimal union, we’ll say. And they’re very open to new ideas, they’re much more forgiving about like, lack of experience in terms of like, you don’t have a ton of titles to your name. And like, if you want to get your foot in the door, at any point in your life, but especially when you’re starting, the independent space is fantastic.
[29:12] And Christmas movies last year, they produced 172 of them. I mean, that’s insane. For like two and a half months of, of program, 172, were mostly non-union, mostly independent films, mostly under, one and a half million dollars in budget.
And a lot of those were written by people who have very minimal credits to their name. So just by doing I mean, just by looking at statistics, right, this space and independent media in general, is the best way to sort of get your foot in the door and build a career. And a lot of younger people, myself included, waste a lot of time or will waste a lot of time trying to go after the wrong group to get their foot in the door.
Host: Caryn
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Do you think that number’s going to grow? Or do you think it’s going to get saturated – that 172?
The Shift in TV Movies and Market Trends
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[30:09] I mean, it does go through periods of getting over-saturated. Yes. But here’s, here’s the thing I, I felt this way. Let’s say 2018 or 2019 somewhere in there. At that time I was at Nance. I was here in LA but I was I was the companies in London but I was I was always here in LA but my sense was this because I was talking to Netflix and all the you you know, the, the S VOD companies, and my sense was always like, they’re focused so much on television series, and, that’s so expensive to produce. I was like, the TV movies going to come back strong because they’re, they’re relatively inexpensive.
Test Market Ideas
You can market-test new ideas, market-test new genres, and sort of find your footing. And then what started to happen exactly that. So my sense was just what the market was kind of shifting toward, I was just, I guess, picking up on that. So there was a lull in TV movies during that period, I’ll say because everyone wanted series and then the movie came back like big time. And we’re in the middle of, that now.
So yes, there’ll be a law, there’s going to be a slowdown in let’s say, women in peril thrillers for a little bit and then like a bump in I don’t know, tween girl romances for a little bit. And they kind of all fluctuate. So yes, it’ll get oversaturated at some point, and then it will decrease in volume, and then it will come back strong.
Host: Caryn[31:34] Exactly. Well, you know, if you just look at Facebook, I mean, I was just doing some research before I started this podcast. And there are a ton of these I love Hallmark, I love Christmas. I just couldn’t go through the whole list. I couldn’t join all those groups. There were so many. So I think even though, yes, 172, that’s a lot. Is that just American or is that worldwide?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[32:02] It’s not worldwide. It’s North America. And so that includes Canada. Yeah, that includes Canada. But I mean, these are films that came out of North America. And that broadcast or premiered first time in the calendar year 2022.
Opportunities for Non-Union and New Writers in the Genre
[32:17] And Lifetime, Hallmark, you know, they certainly take on a big number of those, but they’re not alone.
There’s up UPtv, there’s Hulu, there’s Netflix, they’re all doing originals and be like, you know, there’s a lot of outlets for these films, and people love them. And maybe it’ll go up to 200. And then maybe like, quote, in a bad year, it’ll go down to like 140. Let’s say let’s do 140 movies.
Yeah, being produced, mostly non-union, mostly inexpensive, and mostly, you know, off of scripts that are from non-union writers or new writers, you know, so it’s like for somebody trying to get their foot in the door if they love this genre, it’s a great one to have fun with. And you can have fun with it. These are cute, fun movies. And for the fans of these, it’s part of their Christmas experience. They love to have these on in the background. This makes their house feel Christmassy.
Host: Caryn[33:18] Exactly. And there’s a lot of these conventions, these Hallmark conventions where these fans are just crazy about Christmas movies.
Get Your Foot In The Door
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s the kind of thing like, if you’re trying to sort of get your foot in the door as a writer, you know, those sorts of conventions where they’re more fan-based, you know, I’m not going to say there aren’t opportunities, you can find an opportunity anywhere. But I would say focus on the ones that are more on the business side.
Host: Caryn[33:45] Yes, yes. Now, here’s, here’s a bonus question. What kind of script would you like to produce next year? And please, if you could give some details, or is there anything in mind that you would love to do?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick
You know, I will admit, I’m not the most creative guy in the world. I’m very creative with my deal-making. I would say this, I’m trying to find stuff that’s very much opportunistic in terms of where our industry is headed.
The Importance of Wholesome Christmas Films
[34:29] And what I mean by that is films that can speak to general audiences. They have your love story, that doesn’t have anything forced on them. They just give you a wholesome sense of Christmas time. This is such a cheesy, long-winded answer. But the truth is I’m not looking for a trend. I’m not looking for some embedded social cause, I’m looking for something that’s kind of a blank slate in terms of it hitting all the genre conventions necessary.
[35:06] It hits all of the plot points that are necessary and hits all the logistics of production. And if it’s going to do anything fun and clever, it’s going to surprise me with the meet-cute. And because it’s a blank slate in terms of opportunity, I can provide that to a wider range of broadcasters.
It can go to broadcaster A, broadcaster B, broadcaster C, or VOD platform D which have very different audiences. And then we can just tweak it a little bit based on whoever is the most excited about it.
Roku
You know, Roku may want something integrated with advertising, and Great American Family may want something with a light splash of faith. You can take a great concept, fun, clever, meet-cute, and good script that follows the right patterns and adjust as necessary. This is based, of course, on the writer’s openness to that idea, while also keeping in mind that you need to keep the story’s integrity the same. It’s a very long-winded way of answering that. I apologize. But that’s in truth, that’s what I’m looking for.
Host: Caryn
No, that’s great. That’s great. Now, to wrap up, would you like to share any links or social media details to our audience and keep track of your work?
Guest: Scott Kirkpatrick[36:23] Yeah, so I do most of my social on LinkedIn. So, you know, Scott Kirkpatrick, it’s easy to find me there. And, you know, I do some stuff on Twitter, you know, it’s so I’m at SK distribution. And that’s where I post a lot about, you know, insights about the industry or just where things are kind of heading that do involve Christmas movies.
Host: Caryn[36:50] Well, that’s great. That’s great. Well, Scott, thank you for sharing this, this great information, is very actionable, uh, great kernels of wisdom, that the writers will love. Our whole audience will love it. Thank you for coming on the Christmas movie screenwriter podcast today.
No, thanks for having me. I appreciate the time.
Host: Caryn
Okay. And we’ll see you later.
Key Takeaways: Production Logistics, Pitch Meetings, and Opportunities
[37:12] Okay. And now for my takeaways, I have six takeaways from my interview with Scott. Number one.
1. Production Logistics
[37:19] Scott says despite screenplay gurus who tout the idea great stories will find a buyer, Scott offers more business-minded advice. He says you need to make sure your script is ready to shoot.
What does that mean?
A. Keep the budget under $1 million, preferably $700,000 or below.
B. Limit the cast to the two leads and a handful of supporting roles. Avoid using child actors if possible.
C. Scripts that come in at a 94 to 96 page can hit the VOD (video on demand) minimums which is usually 85 to 88 minutes including credits and have room to spare to cut if something is dragging.
D. Use lots of interiors and avoid grandiose locations like a Christmas parade.
2. Pitch Meetings
You should ideally have two to three finished scripts and five to ten loglines. Show that you have lots of ideas to pitch.
3. Be an Entrepreneur
[38:24] Writers should have a website that either showcases their work or writing samples. Describe the projects you’re focused on.
4. Get Published
Writing your Christmas movie as a novel and self-publishing is an excellent way to stand out.
5. Outlets
Besides Lifetime, Hallmark, and Netflix, Scott mentioned UPTV, BET, and Hulu as possible outlets to explore.
6. Be Opportunistic
[38:51] Make sure your script speaks to general audiences, has that love story, and a wholesome sense of Christmas. Don’t throw in any embedded social cause. Scott needs to have a script that will appeal to a broad market. Later, you can tweak or tailor the script based on the broadcaster’s needs.
This means, hitting the genre conventions, plot points, and production format.
Well, that’s the show. Thank you for listening. To show your support, please give us a five-star rating on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up to be notified of the launch of our membership website at christmasmoviescreenwriter.com. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you on the next Christmas movie screenwriter podcast. Bye.
The Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast – Episode 1
Scott Kirkpatrick Executive VP of Co-Productions & Distribution of Nicely Entertainment
Show Notes
HOST: Caryn McCann
Website: https://christmasmoviescreenwriter.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChristmasMovieScreenwriter
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MerryScriptmas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-mccann-5718058/
GUEST: Scott Kirkpatrick Executive VP of Co-Productions & Distribution
Company: Nicely Entertainment
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottkirkpatrick310/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SKDistribution
Books:
Writing for the Green Light: How to Make Your Script the One Hollywood Notices
Introduction to Media Distribution: Film, Television, and New Media
Mastering the Pitch: How to Effectively Pitch Your Ideas to Hollywood