Christmas Movie rebel Charles Shyer, challenges the status quo, arguing that Christmas movies don’t have to be tied to the holiday season. Instead, they can stand on their own merits.
He offers a breath of fresh air in the world of holiday cinema. Charles will share tips on injecting new life into your stories, steering clear of those overused ‘Meet-Cute’ scenes, and even how to make a Christmas movie that’s a timeless classic.
Chapters – part 1
0:00:00 Introduction to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter podcast
0:00:14 Introducing the Christmas movie screenwriter podcast with Caryn McCann
0:01:36 Charles Shyer talks about his background and career
0:02:18 Discussing the process of writing Christmas movie scripts
0:03:07 Charles Shyer’s journey into writing Christmas movies
0:04:54 Charles Shyer’s unique perspective on successful Christmas movie screenplays
0:06:12 Creating memorable characters in Christmas movies
Chapters – part 2
0:08:15 Charles Shyer’s view on breaking away from the formula
0:10:01 The challenge of finding fresh approaches in the genre
0:11:14 Breaking the Mold: Christmas Movies without Christmas
0:13:18 Networking in the Genre: Conferences, Competitions, and Online Platforms
Chapters – part 3
0:13:31 The Importance of Being Noticed as a Writer
0:15:17 Hands-On Approach to Producing
0:15:30 Experience and Opinions: A Balancing Act
0:17:13 Ideal Shooting Days and Containment for Christmas Movies
On this episode of the Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast, we chat with Charles Shyer, a seasoned writer, producer, and director who believes Christmas movies should have standalone appeal.
Beyond the Holiday Season
Shyer shares insights on creating memorable characters, avoiding clichés, and maintaining a sense of soulfulness. He also discusses the challenges of the creative process and offers advice for aspiring screenwriters. Tune in for valuable insights into making evergreen Christmas movies beyond the holiday season.
The Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast – Episode 03
Charles Shyer, Writer – Producer – Director
Show Notes
HOST: Caryn McCann
Website: https://christmasmoviescreenwriter.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChristmasMovieScreenwriter
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/MerryScriptmas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-mccann-5718058/
GUEST: Charles Shyer: Writer – Producer – Director
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0796124/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
Transcript
Introduction to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter podcast
HOST: Caryn McCann[0:00] This is the Christmas movie screenwriter podcast episode number three.
Introducing the Christmas movie screenwriter podcast with Caryn McCann
[0:14] Hello and welcome to the Christmas Movie Screenwriter podcast I’m your host Caryn McCann, The Christmas Movie Screenwriter is a podcast and blog about writing producing, and selling Christmas movies, You can sign up for our newsletter and our membership website at www.ChristmasMoviesScreenwriter.com.
Today’s guest is Charles Shyer, who is a writer, producer, and director. He has a contrarian view of Christmas movies. Charles believes they should not depend on the Christmas season, but stand on their own merits. Thus, he offers a fresh take on Christmas movies that you will enjoy. Here is that interview.
Today’s guest is Charles Shyer. As a writer, director, and producer, Charles Shyer has carved out a successful niche unique in American movies today. Influenced by the great films of the 1930s and 40s, he has fashioned a series of films unparalleled in their blending of classic Hollywood style with a contemporary social perspective. Marked by crisp dialogue and solid structure.
His hits include Private Benjamin, the critically acclaimed Irreconcilable Differences, Baby Boom, Father of the Bride, and Father of the Bride Part Two, The Parent Trap, The Affair of the Necklace, Alfie, and his latest, The Noel Diary. Well, Charles, thank you for coming on the show today.
Charles Shyer talks about his career
Guest: Charles Shyer[1:36] You’re welcome. Thank you for having me.
Now, I told the audience just a little bit about you, but why don’t you take a minute and tell us about yourself and your work?
Guest: Charles Shyer[1:44] Well, I’ve been writing movies for a long time. Actually, I started out as an assistant to Gary Marshall and worked my way up there. I was a fly on the wall to story meetings and things like that, and Gary encouraged me to become a writer.
I started out as an assistant director and then moved into working for Gary. And he made me a story editor and our story is script consultant, I guess it was called in those days.
Writing Christmas movie scripts
[2:18] And I worked on the odd couple and, and, uh, a bunch of other things and kind of then started moved into movies. And when my first movie was that I got credit on was Smoky and the Bandit. Then from there on, I, you know, which was a weird first movie, ’cause I’m a kid from Studio City, California, who never even knew, heard of a CB radio or an 18-wheeler.
And I knew nothing about this, you know, I’m from upper middle class, you know? And that’s how I got started. I started writing and then I knew that I had to get out of just writing because I didn’t I didn’t like turning my stuff over to other people.[3:02] So that was my motivation to start to start directing.
Charles Shyer’s journey into writing Christmas movies
Host: Caryn McCann[3:07] Well, that’s great. Now, let me ask you this. How did you get started in writing Christmas movies? Additionally, what steps did you take to establish yourself in that genre?
Guest: Charles Shyer
[3:19] You know, it actually came to me. You know, I always kind of wanted to.
[3:28] I had a little bit of a desire, I suppose, to do certain genres. I wanted to do a kid’s movie, which we did, The Parent Trap, and I always kind of wanted to do a Christmas movie, but I never felt they were, I never felt connected to any of them. And then I was, Netflix sent me this script that they had, The Noel Diary, based on a novel,
And I thought I could easily, well, not easily, nothing’s easy. I thought I could turn it into something personal for me that stood on its own, not as a Christmas movie, but as a movie movie.
And so I rewrote it with my friend and sometime writing partner, Rebecca Connor. And it turned out really well. You know, but it’s a movie that I think stands on its own with or without Christmas.
And then I have this other movie that I did called Best. Christmas. Ever. That’s coming out, this Christmas that I just co-wrote. You know, it’s not a personal movie for me.
Host: Caryn McCann
OK, so what do you consider is crucial for a Christmas movie to be successful in a screenplay?
Successful Christmas movie screenplays
Guest: Charles Shyer
[4:54] Well, see, I don’t, I’m not a big fan of the Christmas movies, you know, I have to say, you know, I mean, the Hallmark movies are not my cup of tea and I, I wouldn’t have done that kind of movie.
I wanted to, I wanted to do a movie that, you know, that, that, that, as I said, stood on its own, you know, wasn’t, wasn’t.
[5:18] Wasn’t dependent on being about Christmas. Although I thought that the holiday season adds a great visual touch to movies and gives you a kind of subtext.
So there’s a warmth, and I love the weather, I love the snow and all that stuff. So that part of it I like. I don’t like it, I’m not attracted to the corniness of a lot of these Christmas movies, to be honest with you.
Host: Caryn McCann
Well, you really touched on something that is so key, which is very novel and unique, and that is those holiday movies need to stand on their own.
Albeit, this is the challenge because these characters seem pretty stock. With this in mind, how do you create memorable characters when you’ve got this Christmas movie quote formula?
Creating memorable characters in Christmas movies
Guest: Charles Shyer
[6:12] Well, I think you try to avoid the formula, number one, I mean, you don’t have the girl, the female star coming out of the store with an armful of packages and she bumps into the cute guy and they drop all the packages and pick them up together.
You know, you try to avoid that kind of stuff. Or, you know, the couple that’s having a huge fight, you know, the mother and father and they don’t want to, and at the big Christmas party, they don’t want to tell the kids that that they’re splitting up, but by the end of it, they get back together.
The Need For twists and turns
You just don’t want to do those kinds of movies. I mean, you know the ending in Act One. I’d rather have some twists and turns.
And, you know, basically what I strive for is a perennial, a movie that you can show every year, you know, like it’s, it’s a wonderful life would be, Not that I’m in that league at all, but…
[7:13] You know, just a standalone movie. I think that’s what I would aim for. It’s the reason I didn’t do, this other movie that’s coming out this fall on Netflix. I didn’t want to do two Christmas movies as a director. I just wanted to define and move on.
Host: Caryn McCann
The streamers
Given these points, I hope that Netflix, other streamers, and the broadcasters are really open to going outside the formula. I just discovered Christmas movies a year ago. So I’m new to the game. In short, Christmas movies tend to be formulaic. In spite of this, I always do something a little bit strange, which adds action. But anyway, we’ll see how that goes.
Guest: Charles Shyer
Yeah, no, no, you’re right. I mean, anything you can do to get off that, you know, but I don’t know, they’re so successful, but, you know, do you want to screw around with it? You know, I don’t know.
It’s not my cup of tea, these movies. I would never watch a Hallmark for a Christmas movie, it’s not, I’ve never seen one.
Charles Shyer’s view on breaking away from the formula
Host: Caryn McCann
[8:15] You’re the perfect guest, you’re the perfect guest because you have a fresh point of view. Now, obviously, we all know there’s a big strike going on and AI is a big topic.
Do you think AI will change the way Christmas movies are written or made, and if so, how?
Guest: Charles Shyer
[8:33] I think, I really don’t know. I think AI, if they went into Christmas movies, would only make them more cliché. They’re already so cliché that all they’ll do is take the clichés and amplify them.
So I don’t think there’s going to be a lot of invention coming out of AI with Christmas movies, that’s for sure.
I don’t think AI, somebody just played me an AI song that they said, that somebody put together that is supposed to be a combination, of all of John Lennon’s lyrics and stuff. And I thought it felt just so mechanical.
I think the thing that really lacking for me, and I think that’s going to be the problem with AI, is it’s soulless, it lacks soul.
And I think not that Christmas movies are so soulful, but what modicum of soulfulness they have, I think would be lost with AI.
Host: Caryn McCann
Yeah, and you used two words that are so appropriate, mechanical and soulless.
[9:44] You managed to shift from the typical Christmas movies with this standalone idea, which I applaud. Are there current shifts that the screenwriter should be aware of?
The challenge of finding fresh approaches in the genre
Guest: Charles Shyer
[10:01] I’m not sure they are, you know, I guess if you could get a spin on a story that they haven’t done, but I have no idea how many Christmas movies have been made, but I’m sure it’s just volumes.
And it’s, I think it’s hard to come up with a fresh approach. That’s why we did was really not, you know, I mean, what I loved about it is, is every house that we’re in, we can have a fire going.
Adding Christmas elements
We can have snow outside the window, we can have all that atmospheric stuff that I think can really add to a movie, you know, and people are bundled up in scarves and gloves.
And, you know, I love that kind of stuff. But and I, you know, we had Christmas trees a lot in the background. And, you know, the movie ends at Christmas and stuff. But Christmas It’s not the movie.
I could take Christmas out of this movie. In other words, like I said, it would still work 100% because it’s mostly a relationship movie.
Host: Caryn McCann
[10:58] Well, I’m very encouraged to hear that because there are some rumors around that people say, if you could make this, this is for people who think inside the box and they say, if you can’t, if this movie could be made without Christmas, then it’s not a Christmas movie.
Breaking the Mold
[11:14] And I’m like, well, you know, we got to we got to break Break that frame, break that mold.
Guest: Charles Shyer
Well, that’s absurd. That’s just not true either. You know, now I guess It’s A Wonderful Life being made without, I don’t know, you know?
Host: Caryn McCann
[11:34] Well, it’s like the old argument is Die Hard a Christmas movie, you know?
Guest: Charles Shyer
No, of course not. Yeah.
Host: Caryn McCann
Audience expectations
Now you sort of answered my next question how do you balance meeting audience expectations while delivering fresh and original stories, you are already thinking outside the box and have a fresh take.
Guest: Charles Shyer
[11:56] Yeah, I don’t really, to be honest with you, I swear, I never think of the audience.
I only think of what I would want to see. And, you know, you hope you’re tuned in.
[12:10] And the zeitgeist is with you and stuff, but I don’t ever think of the audience, really.
You know, I just don’t think that way. I think that’s also, then you started to get into formulas again because you know if you’re trying to please an audience then I think you’re going down the wrong track. You got to please yourself and come up with stuff that would make you want to watch it you know what I mean?
Host: Caryn McCann
Exactly, exactly. Now how do you, now this podcast is aimed you know at writers and producers and sales agents. But let’s focus a little bit on screenwriters on this next question. How do you suggest for the people getting into this genre that they network and find producers?
Do you suggest conferences? If so, which ones? Do you suggest competitions or online platforms?
Guest: Charles Shyer
God, I’m so not the person to ask this question. I don’t really, you know, I mean, you know, most of my movies, you know, originally, we, you know, Nancy Meyers and I I wrote and produced and directed ourselves.
Networking
[13:18] And then the other ones I’ve done, I’ve just kind of, I have friends, I don’t know, I don’t know that kind of stuff that well.
[13:27] I think that.
The importance of being noticed as a writer
[13:31] I think that if you have talent and you really can write, you’re not deluding yourself, that you will get noticed. I think it’s very hard to be a great writer or a really good writer and not have somebody understand what you’re doing or appreciate what you’re doing.
It just kind of happens. I think it’s like an old agent told me a long time ago, or an agent told me a long time ago, activity breeds activity. So you have to do it, you have to write it.
[14:06] Everybody has ideas, but to put them on paper and to execute them and finish the script. That’s a whole other thing and process. So, you know, it’s, um, I don’t know, it’s complicated.
Host: Caryn McCann
Do you prefer directing over writing, over producing, or is there you just like doing all of them?
Guest: Charles Shyer
Well, producing is the easiest, writing is the hardest, and directing would be the next hardest. But writing is really hard, because you’re alone, or even if you have a partner, you know.
When you’re a director, you can turn to the cinematographer, the set decorator, the editor, I mean all these, you know, the, you have a lot of help and a lot of support.
When you’re, when you’re writing, it’s, it’s just, it’s in a will, you’re in a wilderness much more, you know, it’s not contained.
And so I find writing the hardest directing would be next and producing. I don’t even know what producing is. I mean, it’s kind of a, I don’t quite understand the job I’ve done, but I do it differently and Nancy does it differently.
Hands-on approach to producing
[15:17] I mean, we’re just really hands-on. But most producers are, you know, like on my last couple of movies, producers never came around.
Experience and opinions: A balancing act
[15:30] But that was partly because…
Host: Caryn McCann
Well, you’ve got so much experience.
Guest: Charles Shyer
And I didn’t really want their opinions. Yay. I mean, you know, I mean, I just, the truth, you know, I mean, what are they going to teach me after all this?
Host: Caryn McCann
Yes, yes, exactly. Okay, so let’s talk numbers a little bit if we can. What budget range or number of locations or speaking parts do you aim for when either you’re thinking of producing the script or I should say starting writing the script and then as a producer, what would you prefer?
Guest: Charles Shyer
No, no, I mean, well, I used to, when I started out, my dad was an assistant director and I was too, so I have a lot of production experience. When I’m writing, it’s almost unconscious, but when I’m writing,
Cast size
I don’t ever try to limit the number of characters, but I do try to be aware of the locations. You know, you don’t want to have half a page in a baseball stadium. You know, it’s just not practical.
So you have to figure out and repeating locations as much as possible will lower the budget.
It all comes down to how many days you need to shoot the movie. And that’s really what I think about the most.
Keep it contained
[16:55] I try to keep it contained because it’s very hard to get movies made today.
It’s not like when I was starting out, which was a lot easier and the budgets were a lot bigger. So now you have to be, you have to be budget-conscious and cost-conscious, which is the same thing, I guess.
Ideal shooting days for Christmas movies
Host: Caryn McCann
[17:13] How many days is your ideal for a Christmas movie?
Guest: Charles Shyer
Well, I shot this last movie in 27 days and it was too tight. Now, I had actors that I loved. Justin Hartley and Barrett Doss. I love. And it was a very small cast, Bonny Bedelia, James Remar. So it was a contained situation, but, and that was just, that just happened.
But for me, I would like to have 40 days minimum, I think I’m not going to use it easily, I could have used more days on this movie, but it turned out really well. But we rehearsed a lot and the cast was just very compliant.
So it was, again, a small cast, so I didn’t have to. And it wasn’t a ton of locations. So, you know, that’s key.
Host: Caryn McCann
Yeah, now you’ve been doing this for a while. what advice would you give to your younger self?
Guest: Charles Shyer
Advice to younger self
[18:18] Well, I, I turned down a lot of stuff that I shouldn’t have turned down. I guess there was a kind of cockiness or arrogance that I, you know, I didn’t have the humility that I have today, but then the business was much different back then, you know, uh, now it’s really hard to get stuff made. So I would be more conscious. I’d just be more careful about saying no.
Host: Caryn McCann
That’s a good answer. That’s very, very unique. Okay, now to wrap up, would you like to share any social media details or website links about upcoming movies when they’re coming out?
Guest: Charles Shyer
No, I don’t really, you know, no, I mean, I have an Instagram account and I’m not big into social media. You know, I have this movie coming out in November on Netflix called Best. Christmas. Ever.
And I have a new movie that I’m going to be working on, but that’s not announced yet, because we’re on strike. And that’s kind of it, you know, I’m just trucking along.
Host: Caryn McCann
Christmas Movie Title Goldmine
Well, I have to say that title is like gold, it’s a goldmine, Best dot Christmas dot Ever.
Guest: Charles Shyer
[19:30] Yeah, I hope the movies are a goldmine. I, you know, with this strike, you know, it’s tough because when you’re doing a movie for the streamers, you don’t make any residuals. And that was kind of my life for a long time. So hopefully that’ll change.
Host: Caryn McCann
Right, right. So everything’s sort of on hold.
Guest: Charles Shyer
The strike
Exactly. But I heard, I just heard today that they made a breakthrough, so we’ll see.
Host: Caryn McCann
Wow. You could be our good luck charm.
Guest: Charles Shyer
Oh yeah, from your lips, please.
Host: Caryn McCann
[20:04] Well, Charles, thank you so much for coming on the Christmas Movie Screenwriter podcast. This has been such a fresh, enjoyable, very actionable, very encouraging podcast.
Fresh Point Of View
And you really have a fresh point of view and it’s just endearing and I’m so glad that you agreed to the podcast.
Guest: Charles Shyer
Well, great, you did a great interview. I really appreciate it and good luck with the show. Great. I hope it’s a hit for you.
Host: Caryn McCann
Oh, thank you, thank you, we’ll talk later.
Guest: Charles Shyer
Okay, great, so long.
Host: Caryn McCann
Key Points
Aim to make an evergreen Christmas movie
Your Christmas movie needs to not rely on a Christmas setting but stand on its own merits. Focus on the relationships between the characters. The gold standard is “It’s a Wonderful Life” which came out in 1946. But its lovely story inspires audiences to watch it again and again.
Meet-Cute
Avoid the cliché meet cute where the girl comes out of the shop with a bunch of packages. She bumps into the guy. Be original. Find a new and entertaining way to have your two leads meet.
[21:15]
How to have a fresh point of view
Don’t worry about what the audience wants – write what you want to see. In this way, your fresh idea will stand out in a genre that is somewhat known for being formulaic.
Locations
To keep the budget low, repeat locations as much as possible.
Well, that’s the show, thank you for listening. To show your support, please give us a five-star rating on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and sign up to be notified of our launch on the membership website at www.christmasmoviescreenwriter.com
I’m your host, Caryn McCann, and I’ll see you on the next Christmas Movie Screenwriter Podcast. Bye!